Rankk.org Topic - 3/49 - Let's beat piracy

• 3/49 - Let's beat piracy

  Posted by Pha. Sphinx 6553 from on 2008-04-22 22:12:27

  Upgraded to level 4.

  I sought the feedback of deufeufeu, who solved it today. His said it's "way too geeky" to be at level 3.

  mithmith, the challenge creator, agreed with the upgrading.

  Adjusted deufeufeu's point upward by 1.

  10 +votes | 0 −votes

  Huuuuuuu
• 3/49 - Let's beat piracy

  Posted by Geb. mithmith 897 from on 2008-04-22 22:48:22 Reply

  lol its not geeky ..it is simple if u can collect the rite hints

  8 +votes | 0 −votes

  beware...pompom has grown up!

  www.net-force.nl
• 3/49 - Let's beat piracy

  Posted by Nob. Intelos 175 from on 2008-04-23 16:09:34 Reply

  What happens if a user on rankX only has solved the exact requirement to pass rankX-1 and one of the solved ones on X-1 get upgraded to X?

  Will the user get a "free step" up the pyramid due to now having an extra solved chall on X? Or does the user get downgraded to rank X-1?

  edit: i am not in this position.

  Last edited on 2008-04-23 16:11:11 by Nob. Intelos

  7 +votes | 1 −votes
• • Re^2: 3/49 - Let's beat piracy

    Posted by Geb. ozehka 254 from on 2008-04-23 19:38:58 Reply

    hehe, good point, Intelos!

    9 +votes | 0 −votes
  • Re^2: 3/49 - Let's beat piracy

    Posted by Pha. Sphinx 6553 from on 2008-04-23 20:02:14 Reply

    Ah that's an interesting scenario. I certainly need to bear it in mind when challenges are upgraded or downgraded in the future.

    But so far changes like this only affect new challenges and those that have been solved by fewer than 5 members.

    Sometimes the speed at which a challenge is solved is factored in. A recent example is 2/43 Jigsaw. I "misjudged" the difficulty and placed it at level 3. Mr_KaLiMaN solved it in less than ten or 15 minutes after it was uploaded, which suggested to me it is probably not that hard. I downgraded the challenge and also sought Mr_KaLiMaN's feedback.

    If a challenge has been solved by more than 10, I think we are likely to leave it untouched.

    7 +votes | 1 −votes

    Huuuuuuu
• 3/49 - Let's beat piracy

  Posted by Geb. deufeufeu 164 on 2008-04-23 22:46:24 Reply

  I think that one of the major downside of this website is the level system.
  I'm not talking of the whole levelling system, which is a great way to have a sense of achievement while being less competitive than a global ranking. I'm talking of the process of attributing a level to a challenge.

  From Sphinx previous post, it seems that a good measure of difficulty is the time needed to solve the challenge. But this time is heavily biased, for the example of Mr_Kaliman, I don't think a top 10 person taking 15 minutes or less on a puzzle is a reason for downgrading it. I've seen on a lot of profile (including mine) that some high-level challenge can be solved in a jiffy by someone while a level 1 can take you an afternoon.

  The root of evil here is the concept of "a priori" stating the difficulty of a problem, and it is a really hard task. From what I've understood the difficulty here corresponds to the number of steps or pieces of knowledge needed to solve the challenge. But a challenge relying on a single step might not necessarily be easy, a very high step is somehow harder than a lot of tiny steps.

  A good way to judge the difficulty would be to rely on a "a posteriori" method. The best I could think of is this one : (number of people having solved the challenge / number of people having accessed the challenge description). A better one in fact would be to replace the "having accessed" with "having attempted", but as we can't be people mind it's not feasible. A high percentage would mean that for most people the challenge was only a matter of work, while a low percentage would mean that there is a big step between reading the description and knowing what to do.

  Then we could imagine a dynamic attribution of level based on this, but it's not really satisfactory as level 1 challenges for example are opened by A LOT of people who will be forever at level 1, while people at level 9 are likely to stop sleeping until they solve the last challenge. So we will get a puzzle 9/1 easier than 1/3....

  So judging difficulty is quite hard.... I'm not really convinced we could do better, and I'd rather like great challenges with not always adequate difficutly for their level than stupid challenges. So thank you Sphinx :)

  7 +votes | 2 −votes
• • Re^2: 3/49 - Let's beat piracy

    Posted by Pha. Sphinx 6553 from on 2008-04-24 00:13:26 Reply

    Yes, there are inherent problems associated with putting a difficulty value (1,2,3...9) to a challenge. What's difficult to A may be easy to B.

    But by and large, we have managed it with a fair degree of "accurary" with the help of a a number of criteria, such as the skills required (one, two or diverse), obscurity (whether the challenge is obvious or obscure), and perceived time needed to solve it (for example, a challenge that requires coding needs more time to solve than one that can be figured out in the head).

    But it's not always clear cut. Sometimes a Level 1 challenge should have been a Level 2, and vice versa. But I suspect we don't have a Level 1 challenge that should be in Level 3 or Level 4, a jump of 2 or 3 levels.

    >But this time is heavily biased, for the example of Mr_Kaliman, I don'tthink a top 10 person taking 15 minutes or less on a puzzle is a reasonfor downgrading it. I've seen on a lot of profile (including mine) thatsome high-level challenge can be solved in a jiffy by someone while alevel 1 can take you an afternoon.

    That's an unfortunate example that I gave. The time taken for a challenge to be solved does play a part, but not a major one. With that Jigsaw challenge, I was undecided between placing it at 2 or 3. After it was solved (so quickly), I reevaluated it and decided it wasn't that hard after all. Hence, it was downgraded. I sought Mr_KaLiMan's fedback to have a second opinion.

    There have been a couple of high-level challenges that quangntenemy and others solved in a short time, but these have not been downgraded.

    Last edited on 2008-04-25 08:34:44 by Pha. Sphinx

    6 +votes | 1 −votes

    Huuuuuuu
• 3/49 - Let's beat piracy

  Posted by Geb. mithmith 897 from on 2008-04-24 01:45:07 Reply

  this topic looks like an essay writing competition

  5 +votes | 2 −votes

  beware...pompom has grown up!

  www.net-force.nl
• 3/49 - Let's beat piracy

  Posted by Nob. Intelos 175 from on 2008-04-24 15:05:54 Reply

  where is sk when you want him anyway?

  6 +votes | 0 −votes
• 3/49 - Let's beat piracy

  Posted by Geb. mithmith 897 from on 2008-04-24 16:22:02 Reply

  who is sk? Sphinx?

  5 +votes | 1 −votes

  beware...pompom has grown up!

  www.net-force.nl
• 3/49 - Let's beat piracy

  Posted by Nob. Intelos 175 from on 2008-04-24 17:14:49 Reply

  silverknight.

   

  edit: take a look at the story page

  Last edited on 2008-04-24 17:17:36 by Nob. Intelos

  7 +votes | 1 −votes
• 3/49 - Let's beat piracy

  Posted by Geb. mithmith 897 from on 2008-04-24 18:05:16 Reply

  but i dnt see any reference to sk in this post

  5 +votes | 1 −votes

  beware...pompom has grown up!

  www.net-force.nl
• • Re^2: 3/49 - Let's beat piracy

    Posted by Nob. Intelos 175 from on 2008-04-24 20:19:03 Reply

    read the above posts again compare with the story page.

    6 +votes | 0 −votes
• 3/49 - Let's beat piracy

  Posted by Geb. ozehka 254 from on 2008-04-24 20:15:03 Reply

  "Added: Level 3/50"

  This is also not quite correct.

  6 +votes | 0 −votes